Phone interview pro tip: never launch into an unsolicited sales pitch of yourself before you're asked any questions to which this could be a reasonable response

"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein) 08/28/2020 at 16:27 • Filed to: None

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I interview people for a living. I try as much as possible to give candidates the benefit of the doubt when hiring managers raise questions about them, especially when !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . But there’s one surefire way for candidates to shoot themselves in the foot with me every time.

When I phone interview someone, I start with a few standard questions. After the usual introductions, and familiarizing them with my company and the details of the job, I ask :

Describe your current or most recent job.

What’s up with your job search right now? How actively are are you looking looking and how far along in the process are you? Any interviews or offers?

What are you looking for in a new job?

Then I talk about pay, and as long as they’re in line with the budget for the position, go through the specific qualifications for the job and how their background meets these qualifications.

Usually, it’s very easy to to segue from introductions to this initial stage of the interview. And yet, there is a trend among candidates who just don’t allow me to even get to these questions. I get started with the intro section of the interview described above, but at some point, a switch flips in their brain, they’re like, “I NEED TO CONVINCE THIS PERSON I’M GOOD FOR THIS JOB!” and without being prompted, they launch into a rambling recitation of random shit they’ve done in previous jobs, in great detail, that they feel makes them qualified for the job I’m talking to them about.

Sometimes I’m able to redirect them and get them back on track, but more often than not, this is such an uninterrupted regurgitation of stuff that there’s no opportunity to cut the person off.

IF YOU WANT A JOB, DO NOT DO THIS. EVER.

If you’re a candidate for a job, the person interviewing you knows what they need to learn about you.   They have a set of standard questions they’ re going to ask you. Y ou as the candidate however, have no idea what the interviewer wants to learn about you, until they ask you a question.

I f you friggin barf up random stuff about why you think you’re so great for their job , before the interviewer even has a chance to ask their questions, you’re probably not going to be answering the questions you never gave the interviewer an opportunity to ask, and they will tire very quickly of you monopolizing the conversation.

Let the conversation flow naturally. Of course, be conversational at the beginning, but take cues from the interviewer on how they want the conversation to flow. Bare minimum, you need to g ive them an opportunity to ask questions . Otherwise, you’re fucking yourself every time.

Happy job hunting folks!

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Textured Soy Protein 08/28/2020 at 16:33

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Do you find there’s much of a difference in people reading cues between phone interviews and in-person interviews?

(I imagine reading cues in- person is a lot easier, hence potentially the higher rate of rambling on a phone interview?)

WilliamsSW > Textured Soy Protein 08/28/2020 at 16:39

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Ah, I can smell the flop sweat from here!

DipodomysDeserti > Textured Soy Protein 08/28/2020 at 16:41

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Let the conversation flow naturally. Of course, be conversational at the beginning, but take cues from the interviewer on how they want the conversation to flow. Bare minimum, you need to give them an opportunity to ask questions. Otherwise, you’re fucking yourself every time.

This is also very good dating and marriage advice.

Textured Soy Protein > BaconSandwich is tasty. 08/28/2020 at 16:41

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Yeah obviously if you’re sitting in front of someone or even on video you get more cues from their face.

On a phone interview, I don’t usually mind if someone rambles, say, in response to a question about their background. If I ask a project manager to tell me about some of the previous jobs where they followed an agile/scrum methodology, I expect some anecdotes that may drag on for a little while. This is usually fine, and if they talk at length but on topic, it’s actually kinda good because I type fast enough to transcribe the answer and it’s good for the hiring manager to read and decide if they want to move the candidate forward. If the candidate is really rambling I might try to jump in and gently end their answer for them like, “cool, I have a pretty good idea of how this project went,” then jump to my next question.

But this specific situation where the candidate uses the intro section of the interview to jump off into a ramble before I even ask them any specific question about their background, I just can’t stand it. Interviews, by definition, are conversations where the interviewer asks questions and the interviewee answers them. At the very least the interviewee should understand they need to let the interviewer ask questions. 

Chariotoflove > Textured Soy Protein 08/28/2020 at 16:57

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I just did an interview by Zoom this morning for a position I have open. She was very personable, but she waited for me to ask questions. So, I guess she passes that test. She was someone with virtually no experience toward the job beyond the required Bachelors degree in science. This is not a problem, but in these cases, I am more looking for the non-verbal cues and reactions as we talk and I describe the details of the job.

Chariotoflove > DipodomysDeserti 08/28/2020 at 16:58

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Very true. Mess that up, and you will end up fucking yourself instead of someone else.

Sovande > Textured Soy Protein 08/28/2020 at 17:07

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I have spent countless hours talking with recruiters. 95% of them have no idea what they are talking about, won’t call back, already called about the same position or couldn’t be bothered to discuss salary requirements with the company they are recruiting for.

Your method of pre-interviewing is the exact reason I don’t like recruiters. You are just using a checklist to weed out candidates who may very well be a good fit if given the opportunity to explain why. If it's a conversation  then you need to give the other person space as opposed to simply taking the position that you as the recruiter are in charge when the truth is the person being interviewed is the most important person in the conversation. 

I found my last three jobs on my own. The last time I spoke to a recruiter she killed a deal for me by telling the hiring company my salary requirements were hard and fast, which was the exact opposite conversation she and I had. Cost me a very good job in a very good location.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Textured Soy Protein 08/28/2020 at 17:08

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Without rambling, do candidates ever be too candid? I’m not talking about them relating their sexual conquests, or lack thereof, but just candid. Simply too honest? Do you look for the person who has a bit of ability to maintain a facade, or do you want people who what you see is what you get? I guess maybe that’s kind of vague, but I wonder what your thoughts are on that.

Also, for what sort of enterprise to you practice your human resources dark arts ?

WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI > Textured Soy Protein 08/28/2020 at 17:11

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Forget interviews, some people need to learn this in order to have a basic conversation.

Hint: If the only contribution you can add to a conversation, is explaining how the same thing happened to you, but in a bigger, better way, then you are an infantile moron.

I’m genuinely flabb ergasted at how some people can’t read a room. From rac is t bullshit, to unwanted and inappropriate jokes, it never ceases to blow my mind.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Textured Soy Protein 08/28/2020 at 17:21

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I’d much rather do in person or even a videochat for an interview. Because then you can wear something professional and 90% of the other candidates would dress like its casual Friday.

I don’t understand the idea behind being shallow and phony in an interview. Why do you want the job even?

Textured Soy Protein > Sovande 08/28/2020 at 17:28

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I think you’re interpreting the structured nature of the conversation in a more insidious way than actually occurs. At least with me. Also, your experience sounds like you’re talking about staffing agency recruiters which is a whole other animal from companies doing their own hiring (at least if the company is good at it).

Generally in a phone interview, I’m talking to that person because I and/or the hiring manager thought there was something good on the resume, and the purpose of the call is to collect additional info beyond the resume to share with the hiring team so they can decide if they want to meet with the candidate . The questions a re standardized because we need to evaluate all the candidates against the same criteria to see who’s the best fit for the job. Can’t ask different candidates different stuff.

It’s not a checklist conversation. It’s making the candidate feel comfortable, making sure they understand the job opportunity (responsibilities and company), and then taking what is, yes, a standard list of questions but getting answers to them in a natural-feeling conversation. Hell, I always give candidates an opportunity to ask their questions before I ask mine, because sometimes candidates come into an interview with questions but if I as the interviewer don’t give them an opportunity until he end, they might forget those questions.

I’m phone interviewing a person because I and/or the hiring manager saw something we liked in the resume and are trying to get more candidates through the process. We want to hire someone. We’re not trying to trip people up. Rarely do I as the phone interviewer rule a candidate out for anything other than their desired pay being way more than we can reasonably pay them, or if they say something particularly egregious, or if they’re really missing a core job requirement . It doesn’t happen very often.

The #1 reason a candidate doesn’t get moved forward after a hiring manager reviews my notes is there’s just not enough in the candidate’s background that we need to have. Especially in my current company where we’re a federal contractor, we make the hiring decisions but our jobs have specific requirements on them and we can’t put people on site at a federal office unless they meet the requirements in our contract with the feds.

Textured Soy Protein > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/28/2020 at 17:31

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I’m director of recruiting for a company that does telecom & IT shit for the federal government. My last job was similar but without the fancy title and for a civil engineering company.

The person who caused me to write this post, in addition to rambling at length without being prompted , also shared with me their belief that non-US citizens have poor work ethic, and was excited at the opportunity to work with only US citizens, because the particular part of the government this job would be with requires citizenship for security clearances.

So...they’re double DQ’ed. 

Textured Soy Protein > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 08/28/2020 at 17:34

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Most companies aren’t going to meet in person or over video as their first step though. Just not generally how it’s done. They usually want a certain level of confidence that they might actually want to hire you before doing that. Phone interview is the first step before an in-person/video interview.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Textured Soy Protein 08/28/2020 at 17:38

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They said that? Sheesh.

foghat1981 > Textured Soy Protein 08/28/2020 at 17:54

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w.o.w.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Sovande 08/28/2020 at 17:54

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I checked LinkedIn for the first time in a few months. I had some recruiter spam, wanting someone with years of React experience.

- I’ve been doing back-end development for the past 5 years
- I have pretty much zero experience with React. It’s not listed anywhere in my LinkedIn profile.

I’m a bit baffled on why someone would even attempt to recruit me for such a position.  I get the feeling that person isn’t going to be a recruiter for much longer.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Textured Soy Protein 08/28/2020 at 18:00

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Shows what I know. I’ve never applied for a very rigorous job.

ranwhenparked > Textured Soy Protein 08/28/2020 at 18:08

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Ive had two job offer over the years without any face to face, one was a sales rep job with Coca-Cola, offered after one phone interview, would have involved relocating across 2 states, and I turned it down specifically because I felt weirded out over not having any face-to-face, felt off somehow, this was about a decade before the pandemic, didn’t seem like how things should be done.

Another was just recently, from my state t reasury department to manage the claims section of their unclaimed property office, one video conference interview, and one phone interview due to technical glitches with the video. Had to decline that one due to a $16,000 pay cut with vastly increased responsibilities, they published a scale and made an offer on the absolute bottom end of it, had to almost hold back a laugh on the phone. I was willing to take a bit of a cut, since it’s classified as an essential position that the state can’t and won’t eliminate, but at least meet me somewhere in the middle.

Textured Soy Protein > ranwhenparked 08/28/2020 at 18:13

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My current job hired me off a video interview and we’re not doing any in-person interviews, only video, because nobody’s working at our office.

We do still do two steps though, a phone screen with me first then the video with the various people involved in deciding on candidates second. 

SmugAardvark > Textured Soy Protein 08/28/2020 at 18:30

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The first time I conducted a phone interview, the applicant assured me that the interview was just a formality and that he would not only be given the job, but that he would be my manager within 24 months. All this despite barely meeting the minimum qualifications and having zero real experience in the job (9-1-1 dispatch). His background was in military communications, which we’d had prett y good luck with in the past (and I am happy to help qualified veterans find work) . But this guy’s brazen arrogance really rubbed me the wrong way.

I said to pass him over for the job, but HR hired him anyway. He struggled right away, never quite grasping how to read from a script to give emergency medical instruction. About 3 months into the job, he offered to go pick up lunch for the shift, and I said that would be fine. After he was gone for more than an hour, I called him on the phone. He said that the job wasn’t what he expected and that he would not be returning.

He didn’t even bring us our lunch.

Nibby > Textured Soy Protein 08/28/2020 at 18:37

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hi i am a professional level shitposter, look at my post history. when do i start?

just-a-scratch > Textured Soy Protein 08/28/2020 at 18:47

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This sounds like people launching into elevator speeches. Those things are to remind yourself of what you want to highlight, maybe appropriate in some forums (job fair?) but not in an interview, certainly not unprompted.

I just imagine reacting like, [inner monologue] “I already saw your resume, why are you repeating this stuff? Everyone says they’re motivated and a team player. Wrap it up  so we can get on with something useful.”

Textured Soy Protein > just-a-scratch 08/28/2020 at 20:07

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For whatever reason, most of these rambles tend to take the form of recounting specific situations in previous jobs that they think make them a great candidate for my job I'm talking to them about. This is actually the sort of answer that's good to give in response to a "tell me about a time you did XYZ..." type question. But to launch into that before the interviewer even asks a question is foolish.

Textured Soy Protein > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/28/2020 at 20:13

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They actually said it twice. Once in the opening unsolicited ramble, and again, after I discussed pay with them and we agreed that the job doesn’t pay enough vs what they want to make but they kept asking questions anyway.

Textured Soy Protein > DipodomysDeserti 08/28/2020 at 20:13

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Maybe my knowledge of this amazing trick to unlock your dating life is why my wife doesn't want me to be dating anyone.

Textured Soy Protein > Chariotoflove 08/28/2020 at 20:14

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Sounds like a perfectly fine way to make an entry level hire.

Textured Soy Protein > SmugAardvark 08/28/2020 at 20:22

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That’s weird to have HR making hiring decisions like that . I’m fancy mister director of recruiting but I view my role as giving other people what they need to make hiring decisions for themselves. Every once in a while if I think a manager is ruling out a candidate for a not very good reason I might try to probe that with them. But I’d never force a candidate on a manager, and if you gave me that reason I’d be like oh hell naw.

Textured Soy Protein > BaconSandwich is tasty. 08/28/2020 at 20:31

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Often times if a recruiter is trying to find someone for a job that specializes in a niche thing that isn’t a buzzword people would bother to list on their resume or LI profile, they’ll run a more general search based on job title and hope for the best.

So like, if it were me, and when I tried to find react developers but there weren’t enough results, I’d be like, ok this is some specific JavaScript thing, lemme look for developers who know JavaScript who might have this react experience. My first move would be to open up their individual profiles and ctrl-F them for react, but if nobody has it at all, I would maaaaybe send messages to people who aren’t a keyword match in the hopes that somebody has that experience.

I’ve done exactly this , and it’s rare for me to pull this , but sometimes if the skill I need is very specific and not a common buzzword, it’s where I end up. That’s not to say that the person who messaged you had similarly exhausted all their other options.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Textured Soy Protein 08/28/2020 at 20:38

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That makes sense.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Textured Soy Protein 08/28/2020 at 20:43

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If you are getting this stuff out at the opening, then you are providing a vital service.

What about candor and what not that I was asking you about? Do you like it when candidates seem like they won’t pull punches and be honest about things, or do prefer they maintain a facade?

SmugAardvark > Textured Soy Protein 08/28/2020 at 21:08

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I’m guessing you work in the private sector? I’ve been a lifelong member of public sector employment . And yes, it is extremely frustrating to have a perfect candidate picked out, then be told that this other candidate will be hired because of HR’s arbitrary rating scales.

It wasn’t until I began in my current role that I began to have any real say in hiring the people that would be working for me without an overabundance of oversight from HR folks that never even make it out to our office.

Textured Soy Protein > SmugAardvark 08/28/2020 at 21:27

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Private sector yes but my company is a federal government contractor. Not that we run our hiring like a govt bureaucracy would. But I’ve got some familiarity with government to be sure.

I can see why you would be subject to that level of oversight. It’s not the *correct* level of oversight mind you, but one thing I’ve learned in my recruiting career is people with hiring responsibilities are often terrible at hiring and need to be trained out of their worst instincts. That takes time and effort. In a government setting I could definitely see how the folks in charge of such decisions could feel like it’s easier to say screw it let’s just take this hiring autonomy away from people so they don’t fuck it up.

I’m a big believer in government actually doing stuff and understand that bureaucracy is often prevalent within government. I just wish government bureaucracy involved a few more people who actually know something about organizational efficiency. I don’t however trust people who say government should be run “like a business,” because I’m all too familiar with how decision making happens in the business world.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Chariotoflove 08/28/2020 at 21:30

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In a company I used to work for there was one manager who would just sit barely say anything. I think he got off on making potential interns and entry level hirings squirm.

Chariotoflove > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 08/28/2020 at 21:32

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You’d think he would only get the chance to do that once, if his bosses were paying any kind of attention.

SmugAardvark > Textured Soy Protein 08/28/2020 at 21:51

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The way it seems to work is that they have a sort of scoring rubric they work from. One aspect of that total score is based on the rankings that we as interviewers provide. The rest is based on 4 or 5 other sets of criteria, such as how their resume stacks up against the minimum posted requirements for the job. The scoring for that aspect is done by someone within HR who often has no effective experience in the job being applied for. They also factor in some other aspects as well, but I won’t go into a ton of detail because you probably could reason a lot of that better than I would.

Here’s a theoretical example involving my former career of dispatch:

The job is posted as Emergency Dispatcher/9-1-1 Operator. Requires 2 years working as a dispatcher or in a related Fire/EMS/Police field. Professional certificates preferred, but not required.

Applicant A: 4 years experience as a 9-1-1 Operator, already holds EMD and EFD certificates as well as CPR for BLS responders.

Applican t B: 20 years experience as a tow truck dispatcher, has not worked in an emergency setting .

Let’s say that both give good interviews, but we rank Applicant A higher because they gave better answers to interview questions that were emergency dispatch specific. That doesn’t matter though because in the eyes of HR, Applicant B has five times as much total experience working as a dispatcher. And since it said that certs were only “preferred”, Applicant A doesn’t get anything for having them. T he way their scoring system breaks down, experience generally counts for more than interview scores. So if we only scored Applicant A a few points higher, B wins out easily.

I totally accept that when it comes to government work (and to be clear , mine is entirely on the county level), it is important to be as impartial as possible, which is surely one reason why they have someone not related to the job or the actual interview involved in the decision-making. My issue is that they carry enough weight in that decision-making that they should have a better working knowledge of the jobs that they are choosing applicants for.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Chariotoflove 08/28/2020 at 22:46

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oh the guy was an asshole, but untouchable. at the time a 35yo bully. He’d laugh after he wacked my cube wall .

Chariotoflove > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 08/28/2020 at 23:02

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Ugh